Rust Removal

While doing my weekly research on LCUSA (Lambretta Club of America) I came across this product, Quick Glo, that some use to remove rust from spots on parts that can not be soaked in Evaporust; such as a rusty floor board. This product removes the rust and brings back some of the original shine of the original paint.

This would be a great product for myvesparestoration.blogspot.com to use, because his paint job is in good shape and paint is not a necessary investment for that bike's restoration.

Evaporust, Lloyd's Polish, & Restoration blogs

I came across a new restoration blog. It's a P-Series 150 resto. Bike looks in good shape. I would not touch with paint -- won't recoup that money in value; therefore bad investment. It can be a mechanically sound bike fairly easily I expect. There is some body rust, but I read on a Lambretta USA forum there is some great solution that removes rust and leaves the paint and metal alone on body parts. It is called Evaporust. That's what I'd recommend and then sealing up the rust to prevent spread. For cleaning up the paint and making it all pretty again I recommend looking into Lloyds WolfsHead Polish Detailer & Waterless Wash -- I read about this product and saw photos at Scooter Scoop posted on Dec. 10th, 2007. This way the paint looks at its absolute best. Before and after photos are posted for you to compare the differences.

Hell, I admitted that if I bought my SS180 in one piece, we'd leave the dents and dings and clean up the rust and give it a good wash and let it be.

Does anyone know of detailed blogs that are out there? If so, please post a comment and I will link them to this blog.

I am really interested in blogs that go into great detail on the resto and don't just have a paragraph and ten photos for every major step in the process. I want a blog I can really learn from. I want to become good at restorations and I aim to do all work myself on my Lambretta TV175, including paint with my uncle (who restores vintage cars).

I want to be like this guy.

Vespa folks talk with Lammy folks. They are SUPER nice and many know their #$%t. I find them to be very helpful -- weird coming from a Vespa restorer?

Damn, I am fired up to get this SS180 done so I can start saving money to begin my TV175. I daydream about how great it will be to hear the VSC fired up for the first time.

I just want to learn!

Paint & Rust Revisited

This is a follow-up to my last paint blog entry . . .

I emailed my mentors (Christopher M. & Tom G.) the following question:

Guys,

Do you think "undercover" (the rubber sealant sprayed beneath cars) would work well to seal the rust in the cavity beneath the gas tank / floor board -- basically the tubing that lies beneath the floor mat?

Or maybe a zinc product, which attacks and seals the rust?

I'd rather not pay the price of a can of Zero Rust in shipping alone ($8 for a can and $8 for shipping) and I am looking at the alternatives the auto stores have. Much of the area did receive over spray during paint and that went over the rust. PPG cleaner and conditioner reached the rust prior to paint as well.

This is an extra preventative measure I'd like to take. The bike will be stored in doors.

Jeremy

Here are the two separate answers I received (both saying the same thing!)

I think you should leave the tunnel alone.  Do not
"seal" the rust in.  Moisture ALWAYS penetrates
sealants.  If you have paint on one side of metal, and
sealant on the other, the moisture has nowhere to go
to get out, and will accelerate corrosion from the
inside out.  Leave the tunnel side exposed to air, so
any  moisture that gets in there can evaporate.
-- Tom


The undercoating product would likely get onto the painted exterior
surfaces, creating disaster. It's horrible gooey stuff. Like you say, some
protective coating already hit that semi-rusty steel, so it's probably OK.
Plus, the fact that you'll store it indoors is good news. I wouldn't worry
about it. Maybe if you like you could get a can of fogging oil at a
snowmobile dealer or dirt bike shop. It's a fine oil that comes in a spray
can and you use it to spray in the intake manifold when a 2 stroke engine is
being prepared for long-term storage -- it coats the cylinder/piston with a
fine oil to prevent corrosion. Good stuff. Another alternative would be the
nasty waxy stuff you can get at auto paint stores (like my beloved BAPS)
designed to be sprayed inside auto sheet metal panels to prevent rust --
exactly the situation you have. But again, this will be an indoor bike, so
even if you do nothing you should have nothing to worry about.
-- Christopher

Lesson learned:
Always double check with the painter and make sure to have the problem correctly resolved upfront or at least make sure over-spray coats the hidden areas.  For this bike, we're leaving it as-is per the recommendations I received.  Your situation may be different; therefore read Christopher's response closely for alternative solutions.

Rust in that hard to reach place?

Damn it! Damn it! Damn it!

Note to all you newbies, we all (even myself) have the best intentions when we try to help you and give you advice. Hell, I have stripped threads in my clutch perch because of advice on removal I got on BBS. I now have a painted body with minor to moderate rust in the hidden area in the center frame tube.

I knew about this after I got the bike back from the medium blaster, who could not reach it. At the time, Christopher Markley turned me on to "Zero Rust," which converts the rust + seals it. I used a whole spray can of Zero Rust inside the frame in the gas tank area, BUT could not reach inside the frame tube. A friend and restorer said he had a grease gun and some super beautiful goo that he could pipe in there and seal it up nicely (since the bike would always be stored in doors) AFTER I got it back from paint.

Damn it! Damn it! Damn it! Where the hell is my common sense!!!! Why didn't I ask my painter to take care of it while he was doing the body work. Why did I put all my eggs in the basket with the grease gun? Point being BE RELENTLESS in your research. Speak to everyone in your research and find all the options you can. There are multiple ways to get things done or fixed and some are better than others. Also, have a couple experts on hand to run things by. For example, I do NOTHING BIG without running it by Christopher Markley and Tom Giordano and sometimes Stu Werner.

Below is the thread of emails between Christopher and me trying to resolve the issue at hand for your reference:

Yes, Zero rust would probably be best. You could then apply the PPG stuff on
top of that in case there are any tiny areas uncovered.

Christopher Markley
Moto Rapido, LLC
www.motorapido.net

> From: > "Jeremy J. Sutton"
If I could get the frame upside down on horses or via hoist in my
buddies shop I could spray Zero Rust in there. Would that be better? I
could just tape the hell out of any areas the spray could escape from.


> From: > christopher markley wrote:
Spray the living crap out of it with the PPG anti rust waxy spray can
stuff, and don't let it sit outside. If you buy a place without a garage, keep
it in the house. If you can't do that, rent a storage facility. But get the
PPG stuff at BAPS and spray it hard.

> From: > "Jeremy J. Sutton"

Correct. I mean the hidden area in the center frame tube. I am scared
to use anything that can damage the paint job. I was under the
impression, when we spoke pre-paint, that you had a grease and grease
gun that you could use to coat the inside of that hidden area.

The bike will be garage stored (but could be outside when living in
Portland, OR as garages cost a big premium in some neighborhoods and it
does get WET there). We will baby the hell out of this bike!

I could see some rust in the area. It was not hit by the sand blaster
and I could not hit it with Zero Rust unless it was upside down above
my head.

Suggestions for safest, but most protective approach?

> From: > christopher markley wrote:

When you say the floorboard, I'm confused. The floorboard is thin
sheet metal with an exposed top and bottom side. The only hidden area is
inside the pressed center frame tube, and there is only a small area that is
hidden. How do you know it is really rusty? If you're not storing it
outside, it won't get worse. You can buy a PPG product at my favorite
paint shop BAPS in Lemoyne. It is a waxy solvent in a spray can like a paint
spray can. It is made to shoot into access holes of auto body components
that are hollow and that you need to protect from rust. I have sprayed this
into frames in the past. It is messy, nasty stuff. Read the instructions to
see how it reacts to fresh paint. Realize that when you spray it into the
frame channel, some might escape there the frame channel is welded to the
floorboards (unless your painter did the right thing and applied
permanently seam sealer to that seam before painting -- but most painters
don't do that). Don't make sparks when working with this stuff. It's
explosive in closed areas like the frame tube, and could blow up. Let it cure well
before using the frame channel as a bong or making any other sparks around
it.

Other than that product, you could use fogging oil, which you can buy
at boat and snowmobile suppliers in a spray can. But the PPG stuff is the cat's
ass. Good stuff.

Christopher Markley
Moto Rapido, LLC
Two-stroke engine rebuilding
Crank rebuilding
Lathe & milling machine services
Zinc plating & black oxide finishing
Powder coating
Metal polishing
cjmark@panetwork.com
www.motorapido.net

> From: > "Jeremy J. Sutton"

Christopher,

Regarding the rust in the frame (beneath the floor board) that the
medium blaster, Zero Rust, and painter could not get I've been told that a grease gun and some type of recommended grease is best to coat inside the frame
hole and would protect it very well.

The bike is at my buddy's shop where I will be reassembling it (with
his tools and help). I would like to protect the bike from rust and to
take care of it sooner than later.

How do you best recommend that I do that?

Jeremy